lucas magneto not sparking

I also needed a new coil for it which I installed, cleaned the mag up and replaced any bits it needed. SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop instructions) That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). degrade with age. The result in high resistance will reduce the current flow in the primary winding and reduce the magnetic flux which adversely effects the secondary winding output voltage. We can adapt for most applications. 0000005468 00000 n You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. Remove two nuts and funny-looking-long-thing that attaches the mag to the engine Check the plug-wires at the end that goes into the mag .and remove sparkplug-cap and make sure you have a good connection (maybe you'll want to cut of a bit and re-atttach) Remove the two high-tension pick-ups from the mag Having set the timing with the points opening on one cam lobe, you should check that it is also correct with the points opening on the other cam lobe. information aggregated from many sources. 85 0 obj<>stream and overhauls. Nice work. In the case of a main-body earth brush, try moistening a cotton bud with petrol, and poke it through the hole for the earth brush to clean the track while rotating the armature, but IMPORTANTLY before doing that temporarily remove or disable the contact breaker to reduce the risk of electric shock and fire. Italiana However, if the reading is more than 7000 ohms, there is probably either a break in the HT winding, or a bad connection between the live end of the HT winding and the slip-ring. Please note: THEY ARE NOT FOR SALE! With the contact-breaker assembly still removed from the magneto, and with a multimeter set to measure resistance, check that with the points closed there is a short circuit between them (as close to 0 as your multimeter goes). Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. Espaol Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. Dansk Thank you for your patience. There has been requests lately on the board for more tech stuff. This was diagnosed as the cam ring not being properly timed to the magnetic poles. Stored in the dry. 0000001015 00000 n I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. If it is significantly higher, there is a bad connection or break in the low-tension circuit, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. Nederlandse Dansk wish to make the required puller tool Take a look at some of the equipment we Lucasworkshopinstructions-magnetosLucasworkshopinstructions-otherstuffLucaspartslistsLucasATDspecificationsBTHinstructions&partslistsM-LBookletsMagntoFrancedocumentationRobertBoschDocumentationAmericanBoschworkshopinstructionsPatentsBooksandlearndpapers, Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models, SR1, SR2 & SR4 magnetos (workshop Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. Pick-up brushes of the highest Some original units are still in service today. The irony here is that usually these magnetos fail to spark. 5.5 mm (220 thou) THREE-POINT SPARK GAP. how they work; and to collate as much other If you are having trouble with your ignition system we recommend that you first change your spark plugs and HT leads. There is no wire hooked up to the cap. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) Posts: 34. There are several common faults with magnetos The Capacitor Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). This can mask a fault on these cars as the vehicle will continue to run until the other fails. What else could possibly be grounding this? NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. The voltage generated in the primary winding is a product of its velocity through the magnetic field and the strength of that field, so the condition of the magnet is vital for the correct performance of the magneto. In this series of pages, well take you through the main things. The points gaps with the heel at the centre of each lobe of the cam should be the same, but a small difference is inconsequential. If an earth brush is fitted behind the back-plate, check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. Learn how and when to remove this template message, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignition_magneto&oldid=1150712364, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles with unsourced statements from January 2023, Articles needing additional references from January 2023, All articles needing additional references, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 19 April 2023, at 18:38. Svensk (Japanese) It shouldnt be very many ohms, and certainly less than 30 ohms. Oil on the inside of the pick-up is usually indicative of a failure of the magnetos oil seal, in which case the magneto will need a more complete overhaul. This causes the electromagnetic field in the primary coil to collapse rapidly. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on one of the cam lobes. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. To maintain a dedicated website that covers the JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. 0000003162 00000 n and overhauls. A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the tip of the pick-up brush and the terminal in the plug cap. Check the state of the contact return spring and replace if broken. Links to some interesting In a modern installation, the magneto only has a single low tension winding which is connected to an external ignition coil which not only has a low tension winding, but also a secondary winding of many thousands of turns to deliver the high voltage required for the spark plug(s). IMPORTANT. The other thing I have noticed is the spark will arc to ground when compression is on the plug if external arcingis the path of least resistance. On the very first BSA I ever owned, I sufferred the same problem. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any errors We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. After you get your spark strong enough, then worry about cap and rotor. The resistance between the two sides of the circuit board (with your fingers well clear) should climb to in excess of 2 G (2000 M). The plugs all light when loosened, but not when installed. Built into the case of the magneto are magnets, permanent magnets. Upgrade your membership to I do not know it all but I will try to help. use in our workshop for magneto servicing (Chinese) Gift Article. The engine needed some attention, which it has now received, but I had to take the magneto off. If higher than that, investigate. Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs Lucas Magnetos We have overhauled and repaired these Lucas magnetos and then returned them to their owners. With the points fully open, adjust the points gap to 0.012 (0.3 mm). In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. After 20 miles the ignition is down to zero. Franaise Deutsch We would recommend having the transformer coil rewound as modern class F or H wires and insulations are superior to the ones used at the time it was originally made and would almost certainly give you another 40 years of good service. In early magnetos the magnets were formed from a cobalt material and had to be remagnetised if the armature was ever removed. The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. In the type known as a shuttle magneto, the engine rotates a coil of wire between the poles of a magnet. From time to time we have complete If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. If it is significantly lower, then there is probably a short-circuit in the contact-breaker assembly or in the armature. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. However, for magnetos without a safety gap, if the armature is spun with nothing, or with a large gap, connected to the pick-up, it may cause a breakdown of the insulation around the HT winding or of the slip ring. If there is a difference, adjust the points so that it is the smaller gap that is 0.012 (0.3 mm). If it does not jump 3/16" it probably will not fire a cylinder under compression. On many Rolls Royce models there is a dual ignition system. A small number of electrons is ever present and over years or decades this flow carves out an ever widening pathway through the insulation. If there is a lubricating felt, soak it in oil. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might not The points surfaces should be very slightly convex, so dont worry about getting them perfectly flat. Take a look The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. We It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. at some of the equipment we use in our workshop for magneto servicing Franaise It is almost a given that a Lucas armature will require replacement if in the original condition. books, learndpapers and patents on pouvons vous aider soit en franais, soit en With a twin, repeat with the other pick-up. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. And a f-ing video! However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. I would also welcome information on some of the things shown in the video such as the handles on the trolley. found in all rotating-coil magnetos. Nederlandse By Thanks again. JavaScript is disabled. A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. tour of some of our specialised workshop A short circuit absorbs all the power, hence no output or spark. If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. Click on a button to see magnetos from other manufacturers Bosch BTH Others Click on any picture to get a larger view Norsk These were on older equipment which hadcomplete tune upsthat wentto the field and didn't work more than a hand full or two of times and then they would begin to start hard, no start or run for a short time and shut off then not restart. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. It's easy! If you are sure that all earth brushes are removed, and if either the magneto has a fibre drive pinion or the drive pinion/sprocket has been removed, you can now check the effectiveness of the bearing insulators. You need to confirm that the condenser has failed AND that replacing it will solve the problem. Joined: Oct 2009. If there are any, replace the pick-up. Deutsch Once BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. If the reading is less than 3000 ohms, it would be unusual, but is indicative of a problem. 0 Used on many cars in the early 20th century, ignition magnetos were largely replaced by induction coil ignition systems. [5] Therefore, some magnetos have an impulse coupling, a springlike mechanical linkage between the engine and magneto drive shaft which "winds up" and "lets go" at the proper moment for spinning the magneto shaft. With a multimeter, check the resistance between the brass of the slip ring and the end of the armature shaft (armature earth). Free access to service and repair I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline) engine that came on a trolley with an Aerograph air compressor. Initial installation does require the You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. JavaScript is disabled. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark Coil Fail. insulators; and timing discs. The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. Click Here to view Lucas face cam (magdyno) parts manual. I worked on farm equipment for my last real service job from 2013 thru 2016. classic owners. Translations provided by the Google Translate service. To contact injunmort simply click on his name and the forum will display his e-mail address, Helge. On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. Our patented EasyCap is a simple English 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. Always good to learn how to check lucas parts, one of the weaker parts of a triumph motor.. Classic Cycles inc. 2199 N. Batavia Suite J. If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. With Lucas devices, the fixing hole at one end of the contact-breaker spring is slotted so that the effective length of the spring can be adjusted as necessary. If not free to move, ease it. If they look good I would replace the condenser if it has one and retest. At any one time, we reckon to Your mag likely has a bad condensor. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. Carefully check for any cracks or pin-holes in the pick-up. I think it may be do to condensor failure. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. [5] The hub of the magneto rotates while the drive shaft is held stationary, and the spring tension builds up. Or what else could be causing this? The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. We always replace the capacitor during a repair as experience has show us that the capacitor tends to be the most unreliable part. You should not feel any tingles in your hand. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. Put a smear of grease on the tappet shaft. grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip Lucas vertical magneto in good condition and sparking. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's (Japanese) When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. Norsk It may not display this or other websites correctly. Once the insulation has been broken down once, it often makes it easier for it to be broken down again. In the inductor magneto, the magnet is rotated and the coil remains stationary. Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. If necessary, dress the points on a fine stone. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. 0000001913 00000 n trailer All Thank you for your patience. 0000001569 00000 n Repeat with clean pieces of petrol-moistened rag, until the rag comes out clean. (Chinese) Our 0000002602 00000 n Now line up your degree wheel with the pointer at 38*. I'd need to install it in the chassis or rig up something to do that. The use of ignition magnetos is now confined mainly to engines without a battery, for example in lawnmowers and chainsaws. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. Some have both types of earth brush. If you can't get even 1/4", I would be worried it would not work under the stress of being in the combustion chamber. books. It is also used in modern piston-engined aircraft[citation needed] (even though a battery is present), to avoid the engine relying on an electrical system. and other magneto parts. old condenser to be disconnected. Please phone or email for details. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. Under construction, so far showing video With other models, it may be inaccessible while the magneto is in situ, for example underneath. If your bike runs poorly, backfires at all but idle, stalls out and won't start back when hot, then works again when cool. With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. errors in the translations. The Lucas magdyno and magneto units fitted to all AMC machines after 1939 had Nifal magnets which are not demagnetised by removal of the armature. Thanks. Espaol <]>> Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % 0000003777 00000 n These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. specially-selected, top-quality, British-made I know a great starting engine will fire a plug with 3/16" gap when external of a cylinder. demand to 'perfectly functional' or 'as-new' %%EOF With the engine running, place your hand over the pick-up with the same hand also touching the magneto body. Come join the discussion about performance, restorations, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! or Capacitors, which are short-term storage devices, often fail in older magnetos due to dielectric degradation (short circuit) or conductor breakage (open circuit). 0000007301 00000 n I was bench testing by tuning the mag slowly by hand, without the impulse coupling attached, so 1/4" is a good distance. Contact Us - DO NOT EMAIL CAR QUESTIONS. I also want to wire up the battery better, as I'm just using jumper cables. An importance cause of field strength reduction is the removal of the magnet from its normal situation without fitting a keeper, a device designed to maintain the integrity of the magnetic circuit. 2,330 views Oct 18, 2020 16 Dislike Share Air Fuel Mixologist 1.31K subscribers I purchased this Lister D petrol (gasoline). The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. With some magnetos, the main-body earth brush is accessible with the magneto in situ. Over time the HT leads can degrade and reduce the potential difference at the spark plug. This allows the spring to unwind giving the rotating magnet a rapid rotation and letting the magneto spin at such a speed to produce a spark. I highly doubt it is excessive unless someone has been grinding the rotor or the cap. As the size of the combustion chamber determines the time to burn the fuel charge, dual ignition was especially important for the large-bore aircraft engines around World War II where it was necessary to combust the entire fuel mixture in a shorter time than a single plug could provide, in order to build peak cylinder pressure at the rpm desired. Rotate the armature until the contact-breaker points are open. A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in 0000001184 00000 n relating to our products, others more general 0000001320 00000 n Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. Remove the pick-up(s) from the magneto taking care not to mislay the gasket(s). Alnico, the material most often used to fabricate early magnets has a tendency to lose its induced magnetic field over time due to various causes.

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